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Thread: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Uncommonly Stubborn
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/25/2009 5:47:06 PM
I like the books. i have followed the series for a while.. not sure exactly what book was last out when I started reading them but I have read and reread the series a few times through. I like the style that Jordan had. Like Thedruidwalker said, there was a comfortable feeling that he built around his characters i thought. Some of their chapters may have been lackluster but they read like a diary or journal... some good stuff... lots of normal stuff.

Champagne for my real friends and real pain for my sham friends.

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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/25/2009 10:43:14 PM
I've not read Jordan, but I have to agree with those who support the idea that sometimes, characters (like real people) just chill.

I know I sometimes find myself mesmerized by the simple act of an attractive woman tucking her hair behind her ear. Humans dwell on simple, mundane acts - why shouldn't fictional characters do the same?

Having said that, the author's mastery of the language plays a huge role in whether I find that type of simple descriptive reverie entertaining (a la Guy Gavriel Kay)... but when I like it, I like it.

Like music, stories are built around tension and release. All of one or the other makes for an etude not an opus.

- Doug

"Philosophy does not promise to secure anything external for man, otherwise it would be admitting something that lies beyond its proper subject-matter. For as the material of the carpenter is wood, and that of statuary bronze, so the subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life."

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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/25/2009 11:50:13 PM
the author's mastery of the language plays a huge role in whether I find that type of simple descriptive reverie entertaining


Yeah, I must stress that the high level of writing is a must, IMHO.

"************ set itself the goal of fulfilling man’s unattainable desires, but for that very reason ignored his attainable desires. By promising man eternal life, it deprived him of temporal life, by teaching him to trust in God’s help it took away his trust in his own powers; by giving him faith in a better life in heaven, it destroyed his faith in a better life on earth and his striving to attain such a life. ************ gave man what his imagination desires, but for that very reason failed to give him what he really and truly desires."
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Make-A-Snowflake (Dec 09)
RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:59:00 AM
So...does anyone have it yet?

...

Hmm, if you do, then you're probably reading it, instead of wasting time on here...like me...who doesn't have it yet.

Sad


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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:41:53 AM
I wish, i will get it after work. The B&N around here open at 9 and I had to be to work by then. But it is the first thing I am doing after work.

Too bad I have 50 more pages in KoD to read first Crying

And with the little time I get to read I won't get to start TGS today unless I stay up super late (which is hard to do with a new baby and a 22 month old son).
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:10:19 AM
I got it. About 160 pages in and liking it a lot. It is kind of refreshing to hear the story coming from Brandon now. We are getting more insight into the characters thoughts and not their attire. This book is very well paces as well (other than Chap 1 which recaps a lot).
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:12:22 AM
My thoughts:

The Gathering Storm

The battle for control of the western nations ahead of the Last Battle continues to rage. Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, has taken his army to the war and famine-wracked kingdom of Arad Doman to restore order, win the country to his cause and also to negotiate a new peace treaty with the Seanchan. But as his plans continue to unfold, Rand has to harden himself more and more, and in doing so is in the process of losing his soul and his mind.

In Tar Valon, Egwene al'Vere remains a prisoner but a defiant one. As her efforts to undermine the false Amyrlin Elaida continue within the Tower, her followers maintain their siege of the city from outside, and are joined by an unexpected new ally. Elsewhere, Mat Cauthon and the Band of the Red Hand continue their flight towards Andor, and are surprised to be reunited with an old friend, a friend whose careful, long-laid plans are about to come to fruition...

The Gathering Storm is the twelfth volume in The Wheel of Time series and the first released since Robert Jordan's unfortunate death in 2007. Jordan spent his final months amassing and dictating a significant amount of notes, outlines and chapter summaries for another writer to use to finish the series. Previously, Jordan had indicated he'd wipe his hard drive to stop someone else completing his work, but with him being so close to the end of the story he changed his mind, trusting his wife and editor, Harriet, and his publisher Tom Doherty to find a writer capable of finishing the series well. In theory, it should have led to disaster: typically one writer finishing a series begun by another is an atrocious idea that only leads to very bad books (note the vomit-inducing new Dune novels and the ill-advised Amber continuations). The only example I can think of this working was when Stella Gemmell completed her late husband David's final novel in fine form, but the amount of work required to bring Wheel of Time to a conclusion required an altogether different level of commitment and effort from Brandon Sanderson.

Almost unbelievably, Sanderson has pulled it off. In his introduction he hopes the differences between his style and Jordan, whilst unavoidably noticeable, will be comparable to a different (but still good) director taking over your favourite movie series but all the actors remaining the same. This isn't a bad analogy at all, and whilst there are a few moments in The Gathering Storm where you think, "I don't think Robert Jordan would have done things quite like that," there's never a moment where you think, "He definitely wouldn't have done that at all!" which is vital.

Another concern was that originally these last three books were supposed to be one volume, A Memory of Light, and Sanderson actually wrote the bulk of the text under the impression it was going to be probably split in two. The decision to split the book in three instead resulted in much recrimination, although at 800 pages in hardcover (and assuming the second and third come in at a similar size) and well over 300,000 words, tying it with Knife of Dreams as the longest book in the series since Lord of Chaos, it's clear this could never have been done in just two books either. One problem with this split was that since Sanderson hadn't been writing with three books in mind, The Gathering Storm would feel incomplete or unsatisfying on its own. This is not the case at all. In fact, The Gathering Storm has the most cohesive through-line in story, character and theme of any book in the series since The Shadow Rising, and possibly out of all of them.

The structure of the book focuses on two primary storylines: Rand's deteriorating mental state as he struggles to bring Arad Doman into the confederation of kingdoms sworn to him, and Egwene's efforts to unite the White Tower and end the civil war within the Aes Sedai that has raged for the past seven and a half volumes. Other characters and stories appear briefly, such as Perrin and Tuon, and Mat has a slightly bigger role, but other major characters and storylines do not appear at all. The recently-quelled civil war in Andor and the Mazrim Taim/Asha'man plotlines are notable by their absences. Instead, this part of the story focuses on two of the central protagonists, Rand and Egwene, and the experiences they go through to achieve their goals. The novel could almost be called The Long Night of Rand al'Thor as the series' central figure is dragged through the wringer, going to very dark places indeed as he struggles to understand his own role in events and how he is to achieve the things he must do to save the world. On the other hand, Egwene is shown to have already passed through her moments of doubt and misjudgement in previous volumes, and in this book her story focuses on her battle of wills with Elaida to restore unity to the Aes Sedai.

This contrast of darkness and light and putting two central characters squarely back in the limelight (previous volumes have sometimes devoted way too much time to tertiary characters of limited importance) is a highly successful move, allowing some interesting thematic elements to be touched upon. Whilst the reader may have guessed that Rand is severely traumatised from everything that has happened to him in the previous books, it isn't until this volume that we realise just how badly things have affected him and we see just how hard and how determined he has become. An interesting analogy that is not touched upon is what happened to Aridhol to defeat the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars, where it became harder and more ruthless than the enemy and eventually consumed itself in insanity and rage.

This is a powerful and intense story, something that has been building for the entire latter half of the series, and it's a demanding tale that you probably wouldn't want to dump on a new author in ideal circumstances. But Sanderson picks up the ball and runs with it. Rand's characterisation is completely spot-on and consistent with earlier appearances, and Sanderson does a monumental job with this storyline. He also does superbly with Egwene's story, which culminates in one of the most spectacular action set-pieces in the series to date (and I suspect something that could dislodge Dumai's Wells or the Battle of Cairhien as many reader's favourite action sequence in the whole series). A whole myriad of lesser characters is also well-handled, such as Siuan, Tuon and the various Aes Sedai, but Gawyn becomes a bit of a fifth wheel with not much to do, which is odd given he has a much bigger presence here than he has in some considerable time.

Other reviewers have suggested that Sanderson struggles with Mat, and unfortunately this is true. Not fatally so, but for everything Mat does that is 'right' to his character, he'll typically do something incongruous and uncharacteristic a few pages later. Sanderson also never really gets into the swing of his speech pattern or sense of humour either. He's readable, but it's the only part of the book where the change in authors feels jarring. Luckily, it's not a large part of the book and hopefully Sanderson will be able to work more on this area for the next book, Towers of Midnight, where Mat is expected to play a much bigger role in events.

The Gathering Storm (****½) is a very fine book, one of the strongest instalments of the whole series and easily the best book published in The Wheel of Time for fifteen years. Whilst some of that achievement must go to Brandon Sanderson for his sterling and jaw-dropping work on the book, it is clear that Robert Jordan had planned these events with a watchmaker's precision, setting them up through lines of dialogue and minor twists of characterisation stretching right back to the second volume of the series, and the overwhelming feeling upon reaching the end of the novel is that he was an extraordinarily clever writer and plotter, for all of the flaws that have cropped up along the way. The book is available now in the UK and, with the worst cover in the history of modern publishing, in the USA. Towers of Midnight will follow in one year's time, with A Memory of Light to follow a year after that.

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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:01:19 AM
**sigh**

Sad

So jealous.

~~~~~~~~~
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/28/2009 7:11:15 AM
You should be, I was up late last night and I can't wait to be up late again tonight.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 10/31/2009 4:14:40 PM
My thoughts on the book... (non-spoilerish)

It was excellent. I did check out Elantris and the Mistborn Trilogy before the book came out to check out Sanderson, and I thought those books were done very well. And he did a great job, so far, in continuing where Jordan left off.

I think it would have to been hard to not be a great book for any WoT fan, because so many threads are being resolved and some major revelations and advancements and new developments were made. One of the major gripes about the middle books is the lack of advancement, and now that we're towards the end, we're going full steam ahead. (Which was already begun in Knife of Dreams.) Beyond that, the book was very focused. It certainly felt like a contained novel, with very clear storylines that were followed and resolved.

If I had to name favorite scenes and moments in the book I'd have to really sit down and look at the whole book again because there were just so many. It doesn't hurt that Egwene is one of my two favorite characters, and she plays a major role in the book. It also helps a lot that this book made me like and feel for Rand once again.

As for the bad... the other favorite character was Mat, and he did feel off. There was one extremely funny scene with him, but the rest didn't sound right. I also don't know if it's because I'm a more experienced reader now than I was before, but there were some scenes that had some foreshadowing that was too obvious. As for my ex-favorite character, Perrin, I expect him to have a bigger role in the next book, I just hope his character will have something redeeming going for him, and make me like him again.

All in all, the book had some problems with it, but it was still fantastic. Sanderson was definitely a good choice to take over for the series. It'll be interesting to see what he does with Towers of Midnight.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/2/2009 5:14:02 AM
That is too band that Sanderson did not "get" Mat. Hopefully he does for the next book as it sounds like he is doing a good job so far.

I'll probably read these final books after they are done and published. I read 1-11 and the prequel, but have really hated the series since book 8.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/2/2009 10:24:32 PM
I'm on chapter 12 of the first book likeing it so far...Ihis is my first time to read it. I'm just wondering what took me so long to start thi series,,,
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:46:27 AM
I am about to say something that is nearly blasphemy, but when they re-print this series when it is all done and said with new cover art they should release abridged versions of books 8 - 10 and have those all in one bound book. I love this series and all its characters, but even I get deterred at re-reading the series more often just because of these books. It feels like I could read books 1-5 over and over and over, while the following books are not quite up there. 6 is still really good and 7 is pretty good, 8 has its awesome parts but like 9 and 10 has too much focus on Windfinders, Kin, and other useless people.
My arms are getting tired.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:55:42 AM
Might have to check this out. I wasn't blown away by Sanderson's prior novels but just perhaps bending his style just a wee bit towards Jordan's, may make this a winner.

Life is not waiting out the storm, but learning how to dance in the rain.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/4/2009 1:44:02 PM
I'm half way through the first book and I'm loving it so far...
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:03:15 AM
Glad you're enjoying it. I agree pretty much with apbadd's clustering of the books (although I loved books 1-6 and not just 1-5). Although I'd guess the drag of books 8-10 won't be felt as strongly for you since you have all the books to go through one after another, rather than having to wait a couple years for the plot to advance more.

Now as for some spoiler talk about The Gathering Storm.
SPOILERI love how much was accomplished in the book. I thought the broken tower, Egwene as Amyrlin, black ajah hunters, pattern with the young Sitters, secret of Verin, and the attack of the Seanchan, all came together very nicely. So many ongoing plot threads and mysteries all resolved in a way that completely made sense.

That Verin scene in particular was especially was wonderful. I didn't buy the hardcover this time, and was listening to the audiobook. I was about to go to sleep when that scene started, and because of that I stayed up all night and didn't sleep at all.

The only mar to Egwene's storyline for me was Gawyn. He annoys me. A lot. Their whole relationship annoys me. I think their relationship is the one that feels the most fake. Yes Faile could be annoying at times, but at least it eventualy made sense.

As for Rand, this book definitely moved him up several spots in my internal character rankings. I loved reading about how hard he was getting, and while some people didn't like the Graendal scene (or lack thereof) I loved it. And when he finally broke it down about how it didn't matter if he used himself up, that really got to me. Finally some new emotions from him.

I can't wait for Towers of Midnight... We have the Tower of Genji, the Black Tower, and possibly some more White Tower stuff to add to the mix. Seeing how Taim and Logain play out is going to be great!!! And Moiraine!!
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:49:56 AM
SPOILERAs for Rand, this book definitely moved him up several spots in my internal character rankings. I loved reading about how hard he was getting, and while some people didn't like the Graendal scene (or lack thereof) I loved it. And when he finally broke it down about how it didn't matter if he used himself up, that really got to me.


SPOILERRand explaining it all after the big balefire incident was great. To me it was far more moving than the scene in which he nearly killed Min. And the fact that Nynaeve questioned whether or not he was so wrong and wishing Moraine was there to help guide Rand was just great.
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Make-A-Snowflake (Dec 09)
RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:30:02 PM
My brother gave me a copy of Gathering Storm and I'm now over halfway through it. It is so very refreshing to have real plot advancement. I'm very happy with it so far. Very Happy


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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/9/2009 3:26:34 AM
Finished it this weekend. Overall I was very happy with the book. I was expecting more with the end of Rand's storyline in this book but loved his last chapter and was good to see some closure on some things. SPOILERNice to see he is now emotionally ready for TG.
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/10/2009 6:28:20 AM
SPOILERI completely agree that Rand's explaination was more moving than the Min scene. I was actually more excited to see if Min was going to die or not, and if her telling Rand about breaking the seals was really her final purpose. Then when he got harder, it made much more logical sense for the story, rather than anything emotional.


I liked it so much that I'm going through Knife of Dreams again, then going to go round 2 with The Gathering Storm already.

(I've read the first six books 8 or 9 times already, Crown of Swords three times, and the others twice I think. Not counting all the searching for proof to support my theories, or argue against other theories over the years.)
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/12/2009 7:32:56 AM
Gerorne, you rule!

I too am trying to fit into a new book to read after TGS and no ideas are exciting me. What excites me most is re-reading TGS or starting over at EOTW again (keep in mind I just finished my reading of 1 - 11 in anticipation of TGS which took me all of 2009). After that whole story with Rand I am afraid to read another book and not feel that same emotional pull that made TGS so very very satisfying.
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Make-A-Snowflake (Dec 09)
RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/12/2009 2:10:11 PM
emotional pull that made TGS so very very satisfying.


Very very satisfying indeed. *nods sagely*

I need to dig up my copy of EotW and make-I mean encourage-my husband to read it. I know he would get into it and he needs a book to read. If not then maybe I'll read it instead, because I think it has been a good seven or eight years since I've read it... Confused

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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/18/2009 2:24:15 AM
My most eagerly awaited book for years! Just got it and am devouring it almost as I speak!
It's already making me yearn to start re-reading the whole damn series from EotW as soon as I finish it (probably in the wee hours of tomorrow morning!!!).

Hell, I need a week's holiday to read it all - RIGHT NOW!!!

"Release the book of Ildatch,Brin Ohmsford! the deep voice admonished. Let it fall!"
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/19/2009 5:36:09 AM

"I'm not for hire, and I don't get to choose my path." -- Sider Ament
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RE: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series
Posted: 11/20/2009 4:42:26 AM
Video of Brandon I took at his Q&A/Reading event:

http://www.suvudu.com/2009/11/video-brandon-sanderson-event.html

Smile

"I'm not for hire, and I don't get to choose my path." -- Sider Ament
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