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Kazz D'Avore ....................... Anabar Thy'lend
Joined:
7/15/2003
Total Posts:
4,293
3
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 4:30:08 AM
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The real question I have is: When Wise Man's Fear comes out and Patrick Rothfuss says Book Three will be out in a year, are you going to believe him?
and this is a huge difference...Rothfuss' agent/marketing/publisher, etc. misled many readers when the series first came out. They've explained a great deal of the issues, and I think we all realize that the next two books aren't going to fly off the presses. I was annoyed when they first explained it, but it is what it is. I also don't care nearly as much about Qvothe and friends as I do with GRRM.
CADRE OF THE FALLEN
"I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death." Leonardo Da Vinci
"Some believe in Destiny, and some believe in Fate, but I believe that Happiness is something we create" - Sugarland
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Am I your Parton?
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
7,422
4
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 4:37:50 AM
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Guys get over it. No matter the amount of complaining you do will make him write faster. What it does do is get tiresome. I understand your sentiments believe me I do. I also love ASOIAF but unlike you I busy myself with other series or just taking Martin for what he is. He doesnt OWE us anything. If and when the book comes out I will buy it. Will I read it? Probally not. Why? Because Wolves will be another 3-5 years.
This thread is becoming a gripe fest.
Sorry these posts after the years of Feast and now Dragons wears me thin.
Draw a breath,
a deep breath,
now hold it, my friends,
hold it long
for the world
the world drowns " - Join the Cadre of the Fallen -
http://www.myspace.com/silchas_ruin
"That's Smiley's. You don't want to go in there, it's where rats go to die-'
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Bush League Critic
Joined:
3/15/2007
Total Posts:
4,158
12
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 4:43:15 AM
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Sorry these posts after the years of Feast and now Dragons wears me thin.
So why do you deliberately open a thread and read the posts when you know by the title (and the first post) that the content is going to annoy you so? Why? Because you love griping about the gripers just as much. Get over it.
- Doug
"Philosophy does not promise to secure anything external for man, otherwise it would be admitting something that lies beyond its proper subject-matter. For as the material of the carpenter is wood, and that of statuary bronze, so the subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life."
The Bush League Critic - Speculative Fiction News and Reviews
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Am I your Parton?
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
7,422
4
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 4:49:08 AM
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Not in the least. It saddens me that people I respect like Roland and Spas constantly gripe about things they cannot change year after year on the same darned topic. Enough is enough.
Get over yourself.
Draw a breath,
a deep breath,
now hold it, my friends,
hold it long
for the world
the world drowns " - Join the Cadre of the Fallen -
http://www.myspace.com/silchas_ruin
"That's Smiley's. You don't want to go in there, it's where rats go to die-'
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Magically Delicious
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
23,139
14
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 5:06:28 AM
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You guys can gripe about GRRM not releasing a book all you want...have at it, but please watch the language when you're posting. Also, be polite towards each other in your posts.
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Bush League Critic
Joined:
3/15/2007
Total Posts:
4,158
12
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 5:09:32 AM
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Sorry about the language Cad, but thanks for defending my right to gripe about something.
Get over yourself.
Already done... its mandatory when you're over 40. 
- Doug
"Philosophy does not promise to secure anything external for man, otherwise it would be admitting something that lies beyond its proper subject-matter. For as the material of the carpenter is wood, and that of statuary bronze, so the subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life."
The Bush League Critic - Speculative Fiction News and Reviews
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Am I your Parton?
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
7,422
4
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 5:11:47 AM
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Sorry about the language Cad. Thanks for the clean up. DD I apologize for the post.
Draw a breath,
a deep breath,
now hold it, my friends,
hold it long
for the world
the world drowns " - Join the Cadre of the Fallen -
http://www.myspace.com/silchas_ruin
"That's Smiley's. You don't want to go in there, it's where rats go to die-'
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Bush League Critic
Joined:
3/15/2007
Total Posts:
4,158
12
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 5:18:54 AM
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No problem... I wasn't offended in the least.
- Doug
"Philosophy does not promise to secure anything external for man, otherwise it would be admitting something that lies beyond its proper subject-matter. For as the material of the carpenter is wood, and that of statuary bronze, so the subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life."
The Bush League Critic - Speculative Fiction News and Reviews
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Uncommonly Stubborn
Joined:
9/26/2007
Total Posts:
1,124
1
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 5:40:14 AM
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This thread is awesome.
just wanted to say that.
Champagne for my real friends and real pain for my sham friends.
Here's to swimmin' with bow-legged women!
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Gunslinger
Joined:
8/7/2003
Total Posts:
4,344
2
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 6:03:59 AM
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One vote for awesome. One vote for tiresome. 
I'm pretty sure I didn't use any offensive language, but if I did, I apologize.
As Spas mentions, I don't care nearly as much for Rothfuss's works as Martin, but my guess is I would not believe him if he said book three would be published a year after book two.
And to reiterate, I think I would gripe much less if it wasn't for the modern uses of the internet. Martin basically rubs it in his fans' faces with his "not-a-blog," with weekly postings that demonstrate that his interests and efforts are applied everywhere EXCEPT Dance with Dragons. It's even been noted that the amount of words on his "not-a-blog" would equal some novels, and think of the time he's wasting, too!!!  I would be much better off if I didn't have access to numerous sites that keep me "in the loop" as to Martin's non-writing activities.
As Stee points out, nothing is going to change the man and his slowness - he's making that abundantly clear, so I should just deal with it. But I have the same fears as Spas - that a monumental, potentially all-time great work in the genre of fantasy will falter and stagger to a pathetic conclusion, if it even manages to reach a conclusion. And that's very sad. 
"Roland Deschain was the last of Gilead's last great band of warriors, for good reason; with his queerly romantic nature, his lack of imagination, and his deadly hands, he had ever been the best of them." - Song of Susannah
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Bush League Critic
Joined:
3/15/2007
Total Posts:
4,158
12
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 6:50:49 AM
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One vote for awesome. One vote for tiresome.
At the risk of a slight derailment... which of those ^^^ represents the feeling of KC fans concerning Peterson's resignation? 
- Doug
"Philosophy does not promise to secure anything external for man, otherwise it would be admitting something that lies beyond its proper subject-matter. For as the material of the carpenter is wood, and that of statuary bronze, so the subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life."
The Bush League Critic - Speculative Fiction News and Reviews
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Kazz D'Avore ....................... Anabar Thy'lend
Joined:
7/15/2003
Total Posts:
4,293
3
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 7:36:38 AM
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DD, I think it would be a mix from Roland and others - Peterson did a great job for a long time...but its been a long winding road to suckitude over the last few years.
This thread is becoming a gripe fest.
actually, Stee, at the end of the day, my feelings aren't really gripes at all. yep, I'm disappointed, but my strongest emotion is disappointment/fear. Yep, I'd love if he had it done already - but at this point, I don't think the issue is simply that GRRM takes 5 years to write a book; I think a large chunk is attributable to (a) multiple distrations (oddly, his blog postings are becoming ironic given his initial blog posts about blogging being the bane of a productive writer!), or (b) he's lost his track or has run into writer's block or other problems in finishing ADWD. Quite simply, I just really hope that isn't the case. Quite simply, I won't ever read a series again that matches GRRM's characters and writing, so I hope there is some way he can put it together again.
Honestly, at this point, its like my disappointment at watching Brett Favre's situation with the Packers last year. There will never be another time in my life where anything in sports means as much as watching Favre and the Packers for a 15 year stretch did. And I was more excited than anything to get a chance to watch even just one more year even if it was in another uniform. Its a transcendant experience, and I simply hope it ends well. Same thing with GRRM. I just hope the extensive delays aren't symptomatic of a writer who has lost his story.
CADRE OF THE FALLEN
"I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death." Leonardo Da Vinci
"Some believe in Destiny, and some believe in Fate, but I believe that Happiness is something we create" - Sugarland
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Gunslinger
Joined:
8/7/2003
Total Posts:
4,344
2
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 7:48:25 AM
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DD, I think it would be a mix from Roland and others - Peterson did a great job for a long time...but its been a long winding road to suckitude over the last few years.
The vast majority of fans here are thrilled to death. Peterson has been booed everywhere he goes lately, including appearances at our Arena League team The Brigade and at Arrowhead honoring former Chiefs players.
Peterson's first ten years were wonderful (keeping in mind that Schottenheimer was the head coach), and his second ten years were terrible, culminating with the botched fiasco this season of the attempt to trade future Hall-of-Famer tight end Tony Gonzales.
After the team's embarrassing loss to San Diego, allowing two TD's in the last minute and a half of the game, it's time to clean house from top to bottom. Sayonara, King Carl.
"Roland Deschain was the last of Gilead's last great band of warriors, for good reason; with his queerly romantic nature, his lack of imagination, and his deadly hands, he had ever been the best of them." - Song of Susannah
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Skull Bearer
Joined:
1/24/2003
Total Posts:
958
0
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 9:49:03 AM
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Dragons is a full fledge book, just like Thrones, just like Sword, just like Feast. It will be hundreds of thousands of words, not some short addendum he had to add onto Feast that he "almost had done." The idea you guys should be angry and annoyed because he promised you Feast quickly is ridiculous because he doesn't write books fast. As I've already shown -- as history as shown -- the man doesn't write quickly and no matter what he says about completing a book you guys shouldn't believe him. HELLFIRE, he shouldn't be trusted after all of the updates he said he would deliver Feast where he failed to do that!
I think your misunderstanding some things here. Splitting AFFC and ADWD was decided late in the game. Extensive work had already been completed on what would come to be known as ADWD. According to Martin the book was half done. Looking at Martin's past publishing history suggests the book should have been out by 2007. Even if we went with your time line of 3 years per book Martin would have been almost on schedule with AFFC (5 years for a book and a half, which is only six months late). So the question is what's happened to Martin since then? Why is it taking him four years (best case scenario) to deliver half a book?
I think one of the big things bothering his fan base is his updates. I mean sure you can be wrong about publication dates and such when they are far off, but how do you estimate the book will be done in two months and yet over two years later its not done. That's just mind boggling.
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Black Staff Admin
Joined:
1/20/2003
Total Posts:
13,963
5
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 3:27:07 PM
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Psylent, what you said would make sense if every book was supposed to be a certain size in word count.
Since that isn't true, and every book is unique, what you are calling "half a book" isn't actually half a book in word count. Word count defines how long it takes to write a book.
If Feast, the total Feast, was supposed to be 400,000 words, and Martin got to the halfway point at 400,000 words... well... you do the math.
Personally, I don't think he should have released Feast at all until he was done with all character storylines in the book. As others have said, his splitting of the book and his own updates have misled people. That is a travesty. But as I've pointed out that no one has rebutted, you've been misled before by him long before Feast was even released... so why did you believe the two month estimation when Feast was released?
I mean sure you can be wrong about publication dates and such when they are far off, but how do you estimate the book will be done in two months and yet over two years later its not done. That's just mind boggling.
It is mind boggling. But the reasons behind that change are not mind boggling if you take into account that no one beyond Martin knows what he is doing with those two years worth of time. For some reason, many of you guys think writing is a concrete science; I'm here as the voice of reason to tell you it is not a concrete science.
To try and reduce Martin to a robot and force him to enact a concrete science is like trying to tell Mr. Michel Angelo to paint the Sistine Chapel by those number paint kits. It just doesn't work.
In short, STOP crapping all over the very creative force and direction that gave you such great books and pleasure in the past. You can't have it both ways.
Shawn
"I'm not for hire, and I don't get to choose my path." -- Sider Ament
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Skull Bearer
Joined:
1/24/2003
Total Posts:
958
0
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 6:27:55 PM
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Personally, I don't think he should have released Feast at all until he was done with all character storylines in the book. As others have said, his splitting of the book and his own updates have misled people. That is a travesty. But as I've pointed out that no one has rebutted, you've been misled before by him long before Feast was even released... so why did you believe the two month estimation when Feast was released?
I agree with you. He should have finished the book and just released AFFC vol. 1 and vol. 2, no need for the separate books.
I don't recall being mislead by Martin before about release dates. His Not-A-Blog didn't start until after AFFC was published. The only news I recall about AFFC was that it would be "done when it's done". I doubt I ever saw his numerous Not-A-Blog comments until opening this thread. I was merely surprised that one of the posts indicated he was hoping to be done in two months and its been over two years. I mean there's being off on your estimates and there's needing over ten times as much time as you thought you would need. A whole order of magnitude of difference there. I won't believe the book is done until he's handed it in. And if anyone believes that he's actually going to wrap this thing up in 7 books I have some ocean front property in Kansas that I'd like to sell you.
It is mind boggling. But the reasons behind that change are not mind boggling if you take into account that no one beyond Martin knows what he is doing with those two years worth of time. For some reason, many of you guys think writing is a concrete science; I'm here as the voice of reason to tell you it is not a concrete science.
Well considering his blog updates and the various work he's been putting out I'd say we have a pretty good idea of what he's been doing I certainly agree with Spaz that ADWD is definitely not his first priority. The reason the book is not getting finished is because he's not spending much time on it. Martin's prerogative but I don't have to like it.
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First in, last out...
Joined:
7/13/2005
Total Posts:
1,003
1
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/16/2008 8:09:09 PM
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I've just been through the whole thread and find myself in the more than slightly confusing position of agreeing with everything that everyone has said...  Shawn makes some really good points but, equally, Roland and Spas have some valid stuff to say as well. GRRM tells us that he is hard at work on ADWD but makes it clear on his blog that it isn't exactly a priority. I can't complain though, I've told my boss that I'm hard at work but I'm posting here instead... 
As someone who prefers Malazan more () I'm happy to wait a while for ADWD to hit the shelves
There's a similar discussion going on over at Westeros that I thought you guys might be interested in...
"By Hood's Balls, if it isn't rough, it ain't right. " - Join the Cadre of the Fallen
www.graemesfantasybookreview.com
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Gunslinger
Joined:
8/7/2003
Total Posts:
4,344
2
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/17/2008 12:28:01 AM
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There's a similar discussion going on over at Westeros that I thought you guys might be interested in...
Interesting discussion, although I did find it amusing that they attempt to skirt around what author they are discussing, because apparently they fear being censored. But eventually they find themselves identifying Martin in almost every post.
The truth is out there.
"Roland Deschain was the last of Gilead's last great band of warriors, for good reason; with his queerly romantic nature, his lack of imagination, and his deadly hands, he had ever been the best of them." - Song of Susannah
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Magically Delicious
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
23,139
14
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/17/2008 1:07:44 AM
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I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have been spoiled by writers that stick to a repetative schedule. *cough* Terry Brooks *cough*
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Kazz D'Avore ....................... Anabar Thy'lend
Joined:
7/15/2003
Total Posts:
4,293
3
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/17/2008 1:58:51 AM
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But as I've pointed out that no one has rebutted, you've been misled before by him long before Feast was even released... so why did you believe the two month estimation when Feast was released?
Shawn, I think that is the heart of my personal dilemna here. I was upset a lot more with the delays on AFFC, but that really was pretty naive and demanding of me. BUT, as I came to acknowledge, there were some pretty serious reasons for the delay - largely the fact that he hadn't originally intended to write that portion of the series (and was just going to have a 5 year gap in the story, with important details covered in flashbacks). I completely understand that he had a monumental struggle in trying to restructure his storylines, and he encountered more than the usual problems with writing because he was telling a story where he knew the beginning and had a very concrete ending point he needed to reach (because his storylines were already in his mind for the following books). I can't imagine how tough that is for a writer like GRRM who really lets the story create itself in his mind and in his writing.
But, again, at this point, I think my fear/concern is much more valid because it is readily apparent that he is struggling in a lot of ways to finish the story in ADWD. I can't imagine how hard that would be to deal with, especially with the constant scrutiny of his fanbase and the advent of constant internet communication/interaction with fans. Heck, there are a lot of people over at Westeros that know every detail of the story almost as well as GRRM - so the pressure he's facing is immense.
Maybe I haven't communicated this too clearly yet, but I am just worried that the task of completing ADWD is beating him up and mentally, it is likely true that he's taking a lot of time on other books/series/activities in an effort to clear his head, or refocus, or something else. Right now, it just doesn't appear that he's making progress on ADWD like he thought he would a year or two ago (or especially in 2005 when he thought ADWD was nearly finished). I just really hope that this isn't the case.
In short, STOP crapping all over the very creative force and direction that gave you such great books and pleasure in the past. You can't have it both ways.
That really isn't what I'm doing - I'm actually worried that the creative force and direction that gave us such great books is losing its path. And I hope it isn't true both for my own sake as a reader, but also GRRM's because of how fantastic this series truly is.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have been spoiled by writers that stick to a repetative schedule. *cough* Terry Brooks *cough*
I think you are dead on Cadder - we are really spoiled by Terry, Steven Erikson and others who have a much different writing process, and its often hard to understand why everyone can't be that productive. But, then again, I'm sure everyone at work wonders why I can't get that much done some days - because I'm surfing the TBF for hours instead.
CADRE OF THE FALLEN
"I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death." Leonardo Da Vinci
"Some believe in Destiny, and some believe in Fate, but I believe that Happiness is something we create" - Sugarland
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Am I your Parton?
Joined:
1/23/2003
Total Posts:
7,422
4
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/17/2008 3:33:03 AM
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No one is as productive in scale and quality as Steven Erikson . God I love Malazan.....come on Dust of Dreams!!!
Draw a breath,
a deep breath,
now hold it, my friends,
hold it long
for the world
the world drowns " - Join the Cadre of the Fallen -
http://www.myspace.com/silchas_ruin
"That's Smiley's. You don't want to go in there, it's where rats go to die-'
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Joined:
11/11/2007
Total Posts:
385
0
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
12/17/2008 7:42:22 AM
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Like I said in the 'what are you reading' thread, I finally got around to reading The Hedge Knight today. It was great. The only bad thing is that it has got me really anxious for ADwD. Reading Martin again was like rekindling a fire (or reopening a wound depending on when/if ADwD is going to get published)
Life is so simple...Press the button and watch the robot jump. But I'm not a robot. I'm a freak of the universe...a thinking animal. - The Stars my Destination by Alfred Bester.
Bow down: I am the emperor of dreams;
I crown me with the million-colored sun
Of secret worlds incredible, and take
Their trailing skies for vestment when I soar,
Throned on the mounting zenith, and illume
The spaceward-flown horizons infinite.
- From The Hashish Eater by Clark Ashton Smith
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Old Pond
Joined:
1/31/2003
Total Posts:
1,071
8
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
1/2/2009 12:29:09 PM
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I too await ADwD Amazon has it on pre order out on April 6 / 2009 so here's hoping
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Black Staff Admin
Joined:
1/20/2003
Total Posts:
13,963
5
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
1/3/2009 4:35:57 AM
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A dark, secret place in my heart -- well, not so secret now, is it -- hopes George never finishes it. hehe
The screams of the rabid will sound like a chorus of little girls with stubbed toes. hehe
"I'm not for hire, and I don't get to choose my path." -- Sider Ament
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I Think, There I Am...
Joined:
5/11/2006
Total Posts:
378
0
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RE: Will It Ever Be Published?
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Posted:
1/3/2009 5:07:45 AM
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Fans can be so selfish. Let the man finish his work at his own pace. He's a fantastic writer, one which I have faith in. If he thinks he needs more time, he can take all he wants. There's plenty of books I can read in the meantime.
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